Post by: cg on August 25, 2014, 02:37:05 am
rejuv desert
rareless
Antimatter own Eternity
wolves & scorps also do well
monogeo is better than this
or rustler
Post by: cg on August 25, 2014, 02:37:45 am
Akan, Anubis, Neysa. This works for many with a bit of luck
eventually get 1 black nymph to put vampirism on antidragons to win
steal sov, rock voodoo & scorpions
givesingu (https://etg.dek.im/forum/index.php?topic=1282)/guilesingu (https://etg.dek.im/forum/index.php?topic=761) have a shot, replace quints with freeze
it's an attempt
antimatter eternity to trick AI into leaving it alone
Throw in Druidic Staff if available
dragon, regrade, mitosis, sor, pu, pu, pu, blitz
only play diss/magma with PA, deckout with voodoo/magma/rock
get oty out fast, try to get shaman down before first tidal, momentum oty if necessary vs ice shield or buff first boar, devour shamans once stabilized
regrade dims to reset counter
Regrade magma to outheal elves, can regrade dials on field for draw, can substitute lobo with 6 thunderstorm
replace heals with shard of gratitude or upped shaman if possible
any arctic squid or sopa help to move towards best counter, freeze squid to get arctic squid
be careful about bond upkeep
kirby brainstormed some ideas, leave a post about how the decks work out if you try them (https://etg.dek.im/forum/index.php?topic=12.msg5283#msg5283)
Post by: cg on August 25, 2014, 02:48:50 am
Post by: cg on August 30, 2014, 12:37:23 am
timpa expands on this deck (https://etg.dek.im/forum/index.php?topic=12.msg5668#msg5668)
Post by: Dawn to Dusk on August 30, 2014, 07:22:22 am
Gobannus
rushier version of the one in the OP
with eternity
Post by: cg on September 11, 2014, 03:56:10 pm
Post by: timpa on September 13, 2014, 02:27:36 pm
Post by: serprex on September 15, 2014, 12:39:29 am
Post by: cg on September 16, 2014, 03:00:04 am
Post by: cg on September 18, 2014, 03:36:23 am
Post by: cg on September 19, 2014, 03:34:36 am
Post by: cg on September 19, 2014, 04:31:00 am
148 plies
Post by: timpa on September 21, 2014, 01:40:28 pm
Post by: cg on September 29, 2014, 02:14:46 am
Post by: cg on September 30, 2014, 03:49:02 am
Post by: teffy on October 02, 2014, 07:23:48 pm
Post by: timpa on October 04, 2014, 03:20:24 pm
Post by: cg on October 06, 2014, 08:36:38 pm
Post by: cg on October 09, 2014, 10:28:14 pm
Post by: timpa on October 16, 2014, 09:01:52 pm
Nymphs + Wings + Draft seems to work better against Pele than just Immortals + dims + explosions. Since you are killing him with UG you don't need to bother with the procrastinations.
Post by: cg on October 18, 2014, 01:24:12 am
OP current through here.
Post by: serprex on October 18, 2014, 01:46:32 am
Unupped500 Thetis
Akan's mono water counter beats Sesha
Post by: serprex on October 21, 2014, 03:18:57 am
Post by: timpa on October 29, 2014, 12:09:07 am
Post by: serprex on November 04, 2014, 03:32:40 pm
Post by: cg on November 06, 2014, 05:20:30 am
The vanilla divine glory unupped counter, except upped. If you don't have the ups, it should work perfectly fine unupped.
Also, Tatatitat - pdials.
Post by: serprex on November 07, 2014, 01:05:11 am
Swamp
I'm not the creator; I'd try outheal with sancts & Diamond Shield + SS. Unupped one would want to reduce sanct count to fit in more quanta (maybe run photon+immo to burst sanct)
Post by: timpa on November 08, 2014, 12:35:58 am
Post by: cg on November 08, 2014, 12:43:45 am
Post by: serprex on November 18, 2014, 03:41:29 pm
Janus
Post by: kirbylover314 on December 02, 2014, 05:06:41 am
Bernoulli
Basically, CC and stall like hell until you need to do something about the SoFree's preventing anything to be killed. Could use a lot of modding, so use at your own risk. Win by deckout
Post by: OdinVanguard on December 02, 2014, 07:16:43 am
Bernoulli is an insanely potent rush deck. Its SoFr allows it to bypass shields so shield stalls fail unless those shards are countered. Moreover, its creatures can be buffed to exceptionally high damage output on the same turn they are played. In fact, its probably even better at this than most fire decks.
Kirby's counter with bonewall works alright but wasn't quite as consistent as I hoped it would be (although it does at least win some of the time... whereas most of my early attempts failed spectacularly). After a much additional searching and tweaking, I stumbled on this counter.
It works and is quite consistent as long as the ai doesn't get thunderstorms too early on.
Once the combo is rolling, you pretty much just keep it locked down tight until it dies. Make sure your shield doesn't fall too low or it will try to OTK, which it can do very easily if you haven't managed to keep its streams under control.
Be sure to knock down any shards of freedom it pops up as soon as possible. Otherwise your otyughs will struggle to keep its creatures under control before they tear through your debris barricade (at which point it will promptly spam its entire hand and most likely kill you in a couple turns, if not on the same turn).
Post by: timpa on December 11, 2014, 12:55:31 am
Kichomo
This explores the lack of CC (only 1 rage pot in the whole deck) of Kichomo. You need a nymph asap, so the worse that can happen is a bad quanta draw (at least 4 towers + nymph in the opening hand is ideal, 3 is still okay). AM everything you see to survive. Kill him with nymphs and use throw rock to avoid deckout.
Post by: serprex on December 14, 2014, 02:36:38 am
Cardinal
Shinki's Shifter OTK without the dials or chimera is fast enough
Post by: timpa on December 15, 2014, 12:28:44 am
Loki
Unless you manage not to draw one of the key cards and it doesn't unleash an army of Strigas early on this is easy.
Post by: Dawn to Dusk on December 20, 2014, 08:28:08 am
it lacks offense but has a great defense. it decked me out, however was gradually starting to out-damage me. if it had a better damage output, it should be able to win.
Post by: timpa on December 20, 2014, 12:25:52 pm
higgs
it lacks offense but has a great defense. it decked me out, however was gradually starting to out-damage me. if it had a better damage output, it should be able to win.
Making it mostly upped and making a better split is enough. I switched the mark and pendulumn types to improve entropy generation in the long run and make sure you have aether quanta even if you get EQ'd to hell. I only started winning when I figured how to get -36 minotaurs on its side (I don't understand why it happens).
I also noticed I forgot to post this
Nosferatu
works like a charm (Hope stops its damage, reinforce coupled with it stealing your HGs decks it out)
Post by: timpa on December 21, 2014, 01:05:13 am
Matrix
the worse that can happen is a first turn lobo.
Post by: timpa on December 22, 2014, 01:29:27 am
still not satisfactory
Post by: serprex on December 24, 2014, 04:33:42 am
Kichomo
SoR seriously needs a nerf
edit throw rock nerf brings Eternity. Antimattered weapon baits explosions & there's only 2 (side note: does AM on Eternity protect it?)
Post by: Dawn to Dusk on December 28, 2014, 05:45:59 am
gone 5-1 (loss was from deckout after triple TS)
the debris barricade is so bernoulli wont otk you with sky dragon blitz however it is also there to soak up damage. sometimes it is better to leave a jet stream out for a bit so it can weaken creatures into the killing zone. im thinking of -1 charger +1 titan just because the titan provides 1 extra damage and cant be killed.
Post by: timpa on December 29, 2014, 01:17:58 pm
otherwise you die before the lock. It doesn't work with unupped repulsors.
Post by: serprex on January 06, 2015, 06:59:50 am
Higgs
Since antimatter doesn't make Minotaur -36 anymore
Post by: teffy on January 12, 2015, 12:01:21 am
Atomsk
Nymphs are the main card of the deck and the key card. Antimattered vampires deal damage to the enemy (same for dagger)
The enemy has no creature control. Antimatter can be used, if the enemy plays a bit much in first turns. Dragons speed things up. It is not a perfect distribution of cards, but works.
Post by: serprex on January 15, 2015, 06:26:53 am
tatatitat
Updated post inno nerf. Potentially could use some neurotoxin
Post by: flyingcat on January 15, 2015, 10:55:11 pm
Good old Mono Aether does the trick. The shields must be upped.
Post by: timpa on January 21, 2015, 11:30:53 am
Swamp
Post by: cg on January 21, 2015, 09:06:02 pm
edit: upon further consideration, discord/black hole/sofo/antimatter *probably* owns him pretty well, if anyone feels like taking a stab at it. He is somewhat underquanta'd.
edit2: in practice dbh does not appear to be working as well as I wanted it to. Oh well. Denial still seems somewhat promising though, just dbh too nerfed. Also otys are annoying.
Post by: flyingcat on January 21, 2015, 10:10:58 pm
Post by: Dawn to Dusk on January 24, 2015, 01:28:36 am
gravy shield gets PA preference, then pillars.
Post by: timpa on January 24, 2015, 11:44:57 am
perses
gravy shield gets PA preference, then pillars.
I never lost using deja-hope, even fully unupped.
Post by: Lost in Nowhere on February 03, 2015, 12:17:45 am
Don't play chargers until you have played two repulsors.
Post by: cg on February 04, 2015, 04:39:08 pm
Tempest
Should probably add oceanus back in to it for the EM or something.
Post by: flyingcat on February 05, 2015, 12:36:16 am
Post by: cg on February 05, 2015, 05:01:05 pm
janus
Unupped/rareless counter since the previously posted counters cost a million dollars. Mono entropy deckout with maxdemons and antimatters and diss shield is probably more effective, but I was feeling impatient.
WRT decks being outdated, post new decks. WRT the OP, apply for the staff position I just posted. (http://etg.dek.im/forum/index.php?topic=344.msg1599)
Post by: cg on February 09, 2015, 02:05:25 am
Bernoulli
Post by: kirbylover314 on February 12, 2015, 06:24:20 am
Post by: timpa on February 12, 2015, 09:24:59 am
Post by: flyingcat on February 12, 2015, 01:26:43 pm
Post by: kirbylover314 on February 13, 2015, 12:07:10 am
Don't forget something to rewind with the eternities
Right. Fixing that sometime later tonight
Post by: serprex on February 23, 2015, 09:20:28 pm
Tuned Higgs
Maybe -SS +BB
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 23, 2015, 10:29:03 pm
Higgs Counter
Post by: timpa on March 16, 2015, 02:15:15 am
Post by: Chapuz on March 16, 2015, 11:06:26 am
Someone please find a counter to Antiverage that doesn't crumble to a single abomination + BEIt looks like a good target for VoodooBravery
Post by: timpa on March 20, 2015, 06:24:49 pm
Antiaverage
Post by: serprex on March 24, 2015, 03:31:14 am
Kenosis
It may be correct still to run more pillars & go above 30 cards to water down the 3 card win condition for better starts
PS swamp repulsor counters could use upped dials
Post by: kirbylover314 on March 24, 2015, 04:38:53 am
@serp: how many dials?
Post by: timpa on March 24, 2015, 03:18:55 pm
One can't deck out vs Kenosis to lack of damage if they run white dragon + 2 reinforce (this fact should be useful vs any DG without healing or evasion-- 3DR isn't a problem)Kenosis
It may be correct still to run more pillars & go above 30 cards to water down the 3 card win condition for better starts
PS swamp repulsor counters could use upped dials
I run the first counter + 1 Light Dragon and it seems to work most of the time (3 dragons + 2 demons).
Post by: serprex on March 28, 2015, 03:06:07 am
NB throw rock change, but the idea is that it's better to run 6 Diamond Shield with Mark of Earth than it is to run 6 Phase Shields with Mark of Aether (also an unupped version is useful to include when such exists, which the next post includes)
Eternity needs to deal with squids. Lockets would be useful
Post by: Lost in Nowhere on March 28, 2015, 04:46:21 am
Post by: cg on March 28, 2015, 05:50:43 pm
OP should be updated with Thetis stuff from: http://etg.dek.im/forum/index.php?topic=12.msg294#msg294
NB throw rock change, but the idea is that it's better to run 6 Diamond Shield with Mark of Earth than it is to run 6 Phase Shields with Mark of Aether (also an unupped version is useful to include when such exists, which the next post includes)
Eternity needs to deal with squids. Lockets would be useful
Thetis
Here's a diamond shield version of the one that doesn't care about 500 hp'ing and so doesn't care about deckout protection. Could probably swap the sundials out for stone skins if you wanted.
500 hp EM deckouts don't really feel worthwhile to me anymore. (Which is a good thing imo)
Post by: serprex on April 02, 2015, 07:17:31 pm
Loki30
Post by: timpa on April 06, 2015, 02:04:50 am
Gobannus
AI gladly animates more and more vaggers, even if you have 2 purples in the field. Some AW so you can speed up him playing vaggers. If the AI gets smarter in the future I'd swap the AWs for SoPa.
Post by: serprex on April 09, 2015, 03:25:37 pm
Post by: Chapuz on April 09, 2015, 04:49:06 pm
Updated my awful wings nosferatu deck with Dream Catcher. Made it a little fatter to deal with Miracle tooIs it normal to see upgraded :aether cards at the beginning AND end of the deck?
Post by: kirbylover314 on April 10, 2015, 01:06:36 am
Also adding the above line to OP.
Post by: serprex on April 10, 2015, 03:32:15 pm
Post by: Chapuz on April 10, 2015, 10:13:33 pm
etgutil.addcard does not sort the input. px.DeckDisplay does. Sorting would have to be done by the deck image renderera.k.a. when AA has time to edit it?
Post by: serprex on April 10, 2015, 11:26:00 pm
Ideally codes would be sorted, then access could be done with binary search. But that wouldn't play nice with arena deck codes
Post by: timpa on April 17, 2015, 01:25:11 pm
Cardinal
on my experience this is more reliable than Shiftertal OTK (which works but is extremelly RNG dependant)
Post by: serprex on May 08, 2015, 01:34:08 am
Swamp
Post by: smashduke on May 15, 2015, 03:41:40 am
Cardinal
on my experience this is more reliable than Shiftertal OTK (which works but is extremelly RNG dependant)
Nice deck timpa - this worked very well vs. Cardinal once it got set up. Thanks
Post by: kvaak on June 04, 2015, 12:48:57 pm
Post by: kirbylover314 on June 09, 2015, 06:13:36 am
Estimated time to completion from time of posting:
Post by: kirbylover314 on June 11, 2015, 06:00:58 am
OP is messy af. Would like to clean it up in two ways:
- Separate decks by upped/unupped and rare/rareless (though this most likely will mean nymph/nymphless.)
- Remove decks that are obsolete and/or not as good as other ones.
So if any of you could help me up with the two goals, that'd be great.
And one other goal I would like to achieve, though as of now, probably isn't the most important thing:
- Have both an upped and unupped counter for each DG.
EDIT: One last thing, if decks could be posted so that if it's meant to be upped, all cards are upped (unless a card has to be unupped, of course), and if it's meant to be unupped, all cards are unupped (otherwise it might as well be upped.) Adding this to OP.
Post by: kvaak on July 02, 2015, 01:18:39 am
Cardinal
More reliable than the tower version IMO - nymphs are way too quanta hungry for a couple of towers and an early discord is basically GG. Admittedly locket+inertia might be slightly more susceptible to an early SoFo, OTOH you can pump several towers worth of quanta even if your inertia survives only one turn (AI always seems to prioritize them over lockets). This also drops the number of cards from 35 to 33 which is a nice bonus.
Post by: serprex on July 03, 2015, 12:49:50 am
tempest
Post by: kvaak on July 03, 2015, 07:32:07 pm
Antiaverage
If you get the mito early you can wait until no cards left & brawl for mid-turn kill. Otherwise brawl as soon as you can eat at least half his hp (account for blocking creatures!) and sacrifice SoPa. Oh and mito an oty if you can.
9/10 wins, would fine-tune until I can get 10/10 reliably but I just want something to replace the current counter which constantly gets outrushed, CCd, quanta starved, shut down by disco etc.
The nymph's there mostly for EM (use the lockets on themselves to create rainbow quanta & BH yourself) and can be left out.
Post by: timpa on July 05, 2015, 12:46:02 am
Loki
Post by: serprex on July 16, 2015, 01:34:11 am
Improved Suwako
Don't overuse SoBr if Suwako would end up not decking out. Cast RoF when field nearly full to keep Suwako playing creatures. May be best to replace some pends with dials
Post by: serprex on July 31, 2015, 12:56:06 am
Kichomo v3
Post by: serprex on September 06, 2015, 03:16:12 pm
Post by: serprex on September 11, 2015, 05:29:15 pm
Halwn sans bubble
Post by: kirbylover314 on October 09, 2015, 05:24:29 am
Economical Antiaverage
Not 100% counter, and still needs some tweaking, but can win with some luck. Not adding this to OP yet.
Economical Tatatitat
Again, needs tweaking. Again, not adding to OP
Post by: serprex on October 10, 2015, 01:49:40 am
That said if that antiaverage deck works, we're in need for a plain antiaverage counter
Post by: kirbylover314 on October 11, 2015, 06:09:18 pm
As to on how to use it, you try to PA your shield ASAP. Save PA for Eternity, other one is just for draw chance. As Anti's damage comes from Micro Aboms/Dragons which have 6 HP, most of his damage is then RoL. Panda when needed, SoG/Sancs heal enough RoL damage, deck him out.
The Tatatitat counter really needs those SoSac though.
Post by: serprex on October 12, 2015, 02:46:13 am
Post by: kirbylover314 on October 12, 2015, 11:04:39 pm
Economical Tempest
Tweaking needed, etc
EDITS:
More Bubble, Phantoms screw with you a lot
Dragons strain less on quanta, maybe
Note: Whatever you do, DO NOT LET CLOAK GET PLAYED. Freeze his squids before yours if you must.
Bernoulli probably would just be an unupped version of the Bonestorm. SoFo decks are not economical, the Deck is unreliable.
Cardinal might be workable with Limitless Speed, which I hope is considered economical, as it has only 3 nonrare upgrades required.
Higgs/Neysa/Nosferatu/Suwako deck images broken; will fix soon, it's almost 2 am here.
Post by: Gearheart on November 13, 2015, 06:55:55 am
Improved Suwako
Don't overuse SoBr if Suwako would end up not decking out. Cast RoF when field nearly full to keep Suwako playing creatures. May be best to replace some pends with dials
I tried this one with no upgraded cards, and it worked great. Won with 6 cards left, and full HP.
Unupped Suwako
The only thing I have to add to the original notes is you might want to mulligan if you don't get an emerald shield in your starting hand. That one point of damage reduction makes a huge difference when Suwako is spamming 2/2 creatures.
Post by: kirbylover314 on November 21, 2015, 07:32:26 am
Higgs/Neysa/Nosferatu/Suwako deck images broken; will fix soon, it's almost 2 am here.
Apparently soon means "1 month later"
Post by: serprex on December 13, 2015, 09:37:25 pm
Akan
Post by: cg on May 06, 2018, 03:03:32 am
edit: can't call it new so not making a separate post, but added unupped bonestorm for bernoulli
Post by: sirteeth on July 24, 2018, 07:06:07 pm
Higgs
Threw together this deck vs Higgs because i didnt have the right upgrades for the other two decks in op.
(https://i.imgur.com/0ZdX7sY.png)
Post by: sirteeth on August 29, 2018, 05:44:46 am
Post by: sirteeth on September 30, 2018, 12:52:15 pm
Post by: MrFire on January 04, 2020, 04:17:29 am
Post by: Lost in Nowhere on June 06, 2020, 07:18:39 am
Tatatitat
Still not 100% a counter, but seems to win more than half of the time based on testing. Getting a discord on turn 1 or 2 is vital, followed by a gravity nymph as soon as possible after. Pandemonium is particularly for use against Otyughs and Defenders, or if things generally get out of hand before a lockdown occurs. Could potentially use locket/inertia, but this seemed to be slower at initial quanta, which made playing discord early and generally surviving much more difficult.
Post by: Lost in Nowhere on June 18, 2020, 07:52:09 pm
Kenosis
Updated version of the one in original post; BE is for lemmings, as it removes their ability and replaces it with one Kenosis can't use (no entropy quanta). Quanta balance and size possibly could be improved.
Edit: another counter:
Kenosis
Use quint on the lemmings to be able to AM everything else (if possible, use antimatter on them before you do so they can't kill nymphs when Brawl comes out, but it's not 100% necessary). Wins reliably from my testing.
Post by: asdw152 on October 19, 2020, 09:54:51 am
Someone smart do the winrate calculations and optimize.
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on November 20, 2020, 11:18:10 pm
This worked for me against Nosferatu.
The other counters are a little big so I went ahead and made my own
Post by: serprex on December 14, 2020, 06:21:17 pm
Pele, instosis
Post by: kirbylover314 on January 14, 2021, 04:03:25 pm
econ tatatitat
can scrape a win with some luck, but works pretty well considering how cheap it is
just force ai to cata with pacify, heal up
definitely needs refinement because i put this together in like 30 seconds, i dont think the holy lights even do anything
EDIT: monk seems okay, also if you get oty + accel combo'd it's pretty doomed
EDIT2:
prolly better
Post by: sirteeth on January 14, 2021, 05:42:39 pm
lol there still isnt an econ tatanot quite as eco (requires eternity and some uncommons)econ tatatitat
can scrape a win with some luck, but works pretty well considering how cheap it is
just force ai to cata with pacify, heal up
definitely needs refinement because i put this together in like 30 seconds, i dont think the holy lights even do anything
EDIT: monk seems okay, also if you get oty + accel combo'd it's pretty doomed
EDIT2:prolly better
but this ought to stop its gameplan much better, provided it sets up in time (untested)
destroy all catas, put all flown titans and od targets in deck or hand, mutate all 4 lemmings (and some defenders if you got leftover) and put the likely unplayable mutations in deck/hand as well and survive the defenders+ a titan
obv much better with some sogs
also can replace rider with hand drill, to win through defenders and use eternity for board control alone
closer to optimised
Post by: kirbylover314 on January 14, 2021, 07:52:16 pm
lol there still isnt an econ tatanot quite as eco (requires eternity and some uncommons)econ tatatitat
can scrape a win with some luck, but works pretty well considering how cheap it is
just force ai to cata with pacify, heal up
definitely needs refinement because i put this together in like 30 seconds, i dont think the holy lights even do anything
EDIT: monk seems okay, also if you get oty + accel combo'd it's pretty doomed
EDIT2:prolly better
but this ought to stop its gameplan much better, provided it sets up in time (untested)
destroy all catas, put all flown titans and od targets in deck or hand, mutate all 4 lemmings (and some defenders if you got leftover) and put the likely unplayable mutations in deck/hand as well and survive the defenders+ a titan
obv much better with some sogs
also can replace rider with hand drill, to win through defenders and use eternity for board control alonecloser to optimised
Intial tests found the deck had too many control cards, not enough healing. Also stealing a titan to beat the crap out of Tata is way easier than deckout.
if no sogs use heals
Use pc only on titans not catapults, rewind/unsummon if one makes it out on the board. Stealing a titan to kill means you have to keep in mind to not overdraw by accident. Should probably try to get a midas or deflag in opener
Still can't believe I tried to deal with titans with pacify at first
On another note, Swamp is easy with dream catchers:
if no fractals use broken mirrors
Post by: sirteeth on January 14, 2021, 10:37:07 pm
Cardinal: yh, ill leave this one unsolved, its a pain for sure. unless mindflayer +regrade dims actually works
Higgs: wings + excessive pc and any kind of wincon; dont have to worry about cc or pc at least and only ug bypasses wings iirc
Matrix: sosac/dials kinda a must vs a rush with all dmg types, but obv sosac not an option and dials nerfed too hard (silence is a pain for that strat as well, but its not that hard to slpash sanct/dream catcher)
can try to mimic entronymph spam with nt but that seems too slow
oty also has potential, as it deals with recluses right away and limits byt use, still gotta deal with lobo, fractal and immortals though; a rainbow stall built around oty or scarab(easier to bring out but needs some help to get going) with some pc and a lot of healing seems promising
Sesha: rt/unsummon should work well here, but need lots of healing to survive the initial burst and remaining dmg. the new counter to catatitat should work well if you replace the pc with stuff that deals with fenghuang and entro cards
Swamp: you need to be mostly unaffected by devs and 8 dmg reduction, as well as a way to deal with despair. deja hope with sanct and midas touch perhaps? with reinforce light dragons to not deckout? and yes thats basically a deck filled to the brim with uncommons. may also go with immo photon as early game way to deal with devs and power luci, which would allow you to then use deflag as pc for despair when needed.
Post by: sirteeth on January 14, 2021, 11:31:30 pm
Cardinal
Higgs
matrix
sesha
swamp
all untested
Post by: kirbylover314 on January 14, 2021, 11:54:07 pm
Swamp: you need to be mostly unaffected by devs and 8 dmg reduction, as well as a way to deal with despair. deja hope with sanct and midas touch perhaps? with reinforce light dragons to not deckout? and yes thats basically a deck filled to the brim with uncommons. may also go with immo photon as early game way to deal with devs and power luci, which would allow you to then use deflag as pc for despair when needed.
Actually did Swamp today along with Tatatitat
Also this Higgs has worked pretty well for me so far:
Upped it's probably a lot more braindead to play than current counters too fwiw
Sesha:
EDIT: Tried the Cardinal and Matrix decks. The Cardinal one premodifications probably has like 1 in 10 to 1 in 20 chances of winning, the Matrix one gets outrushed way too fast. Currently trying a Bonestorm for Matrix which dies less fast but that's all it does.
Post by: kirbylover314 on January 15, 2021, 03:32:51 pm
(https://imgur.com/EltGWYA.png)
Stalled Matrix a few times to ~70 plies with this, luckily AI too stupid too stop buffing spooders in favor of byts or psions when they're available.
I haven't tested anything yet, but you just need to add damage to kill and it's probably good enough, although if Matrix draws no spooders it's an autoconcede which sucks.
don't really know what to replace with fahrenheit sorry
There's probably a better wings stall (a rainbow maybe?) out there but this sort of works for now.
EDIT: It works like half the time which is probably insane for an unupped, 1 rare deck. Matrix is such a pain
EDIT2: For a true econ a modified version of this vanilla Morte counter (http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/Morte) might work actually
Post by: kirbylover314 on January 15, 2021, 06:13:40 pm
sofo with no PA or oty is lose, lightning with no quint is lose, uncontrolled geese is lose, early charger before oty+magma is lose
please tell me that never again will there be a dg where i have to worry about damage, denial, cc, and pc at the same time
And with that I can go disappear again /s
I should probably point out that out of all the counters recently posted Swamp, Sesha, Higgs are actually not terrible and are pretty consistent.
Matrix is about 50/50 I would say, Cardinal is maybe 1 in 5 to 1 in 10, so if anyone feels up for improving winrates, those are probably the ones to look at. Also I find it hilarious that the rareless Tempest counter is listed because I'm pretty sure I've never had it work once
Less bad rareless Tempest:
Worked 1/1 times
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on February 09, 2021, 02:25:25 pm
Could do -2 Midas +1 Micro abom +1 BE but I like having 4 PC cards. Only permanent to worry about is Lobo and Matrix only has 2.
EDIT: With pendulums so you always have :entropy on opening hand, looks to be about as good as the deck above though
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on February 19, 2021, 11:44:25 pm
Seems to do well overall. Drill thugs, HL/pacify shtrigas. BH self for EM (generally Purify will get you EM though) or if in danger. For those who'd like to play the waiting game instead of worrying about having RoLs getting eaten by enormous Shtrigas which beat Hope.
Post by: kirbylover314 on April 05, 2021, 10:10:42 pm
mirage
pretty terrible tbh but has a decent chance assuming you get anything out
odious
reasonable wr i think
to be honest it might be possible to kill odious with just the thorn carapace and you just run sanc + shaman + carapace
as im posting this it sounds a lot better actually
Post by: timpa on April 26, 2021, 12:37:52 am
500 hp EM for suwako. Probably works for other targets as well.
I think this can still be optimized for Suwako. I tested this and it seems to work better for the specific target
As always, use your brain before using SoBr, or you might be the one getting decked out.
For trying to adapt this to other DGs, remember that RoF and flooding are there to counter fractal, you might want to swap for something more relevant. Same for Bubble shield that is there to counter the druid ability. In the case of Suwako Pacify (in cg's deck) is useless, as the druids just kill the pacified creature and pump out more and with the amount of HP increase you get Miracles >> Sancts (having lots of Miracles also makes a 500 hp EM easier to coordenate).
Avoiding a double post:
100 HP EM vs Odious
Pulvy is for getting around Odious mindgating a drill, which happens annoyingly often. Destroy their mindgates, catchers and epochs, kill their creatures, beef up your deck and press spacebar to victory.
Post by: Manuel on May 01, 2021, 02:30:49 pm
locket are for targetting probably nirrti's light pends at the begginning to fuel tess, then to switch out to water for fueling magma and in case u are so unlucky to draw shaman u can target them to play the first one and the create infinite copies
no need to waste slot for cc for arsenic
Post by: dragtom on May 07, 2021, 09:06:16 pm
This feels way better vs Tempest than what is in the OP
Post by: kirbylover314 on May 12, 2021, 10:50:31 am
Sesha
Post by: dragtom on May 21, 2021, 04:49:47 pm
Post by: timpa on May 22, 2021, 08:09:49 pm
Mirage
Very tricky to navigate and not as effective as I'd like, but it seems to have more of a chance than the current counters. Try to get a pulvy out asap to stop the clepsis. Try to keep at least one rock in hand for the random SoFo, until you get the Otys out (once you get past the RT/unsummon barrage).
Post by: dragtom on May 25, 2021, 08:01:25 pm
Incubus
get 1 repulsor up asap, getting 2nd and 3rd helps- but more doesn't.
Antimatter sharks to gain max HP, antimatter shamans (the last one played first) to deal damage.
antimatter (but dont destroy) druidic staff.
never antimatter scorpions.
Destroy thorn carapace ASAP. Always leave at least 1 SoFo activation for that.
thorns will kill their shamans, having you risk a deckout.
If you cant destroy thorns early, antimatter entropy nymph.
Destroy SoV. Keep SoGr alive unless you have enough SoFo out.
Post by: asdw152 on May 28, 2021, 03:12:55 am
Incubus counter, potentially less reward but consistent imo. Need sopa before incubus gets thorns out. purify and catchers to protect from scorp and nightmare bypass. could definitely use some optimization and balancing.
Post by: Manuel on May 28, 2021, 06:09:20 pm
5-0 so far against lycaon, free to include 2 sogs for 1 immortal 1 pillar if u want to em
Post by: Manuel on May 29, 2021, 01:38:59 pm
5-0 against nosferatu, pillars are just for safety in case he is lucky and get 2 early explosions, can -1 pillars + charger/oty, which can be helpful to eat early spiders
Post by: timpa on June 17, 2021, 09:07:53 pm
Kenosis 500 HP EM
Only recommendation is to save light quanta if you don't need more Shamans in play at the momment, because AI apparently learned about comboing Brawl with Sabbath chains to clean your board and keep it clean, so it's nice to have the quanta to rebuild your board asap.
Similarly don't overdrill or you'll make it harder to draw the magmas (and the 500 HP is the only point of using this)
Post by: Manuel on July 12, 2021, 10:09:26 pm
cardinal counter, i have tested it in "custom" and i have no idea if it is intended for ai to start getting lazy and not using abilities and not playing many cards except chargers and sofo after i play broken mirrors
start chaining dims before u are under 60hp, tbolt chargers, lobo sofo (or tbolt if u don't have lobo)
don't waste quanta on phantoms at the beginning, remember always the shuffle from discord if u didn't start chaining so u risk to get locked or get too much damages
considering i am unlucky this in my opinion has almost a 70% winrate (i have made 8-2) , most of matches if u play broken mirror first turn can end like this
(https://i.imgur.com/h68tyxH.png)
i have only killed a single charger
Post by: timpa on July 16, 2021, 04:25:41 pm
Streamlined proposed counter vs Matrix, seems to do better overall. Also not vulnerable to Matrix having lobo out before you can get PC out
Drill > Eternity to prevent deckout. Also Epoch really slows Matrix down (but you can live without it). Most of my losses were from early silence chains.
Post by: Manuel on August 15, 2021, 01:12:30 am
it's a lot faster kill kichomo with dragons rather than deck him out, u get a lot more stable quanta in this way since no need to run pends, maybe u can even run only 4 sor
5-1 so far, the lose was only for me not using the mulligan after drawing only 2 pillars
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on August 31, 2021, 02:29:18 am
Get SoFo out ASAP and target resonators. Point is to quanta lock Fantasia.
Post by: asdw152 on September 03, 2021, 05:28:10 am
Phoenix counter, could def use some tweaking and balancing, esp in condors and boneyards, but it works just fine.
Post by: asdw152 on September 04, 2021, 05:13:59 pm
The tempest counter works for rainbow as well. get out early nymphs over boars. two nymphs are enough to lock down, but more also welcome.
Post by: Manuel on September 08, 2021, 11:54:38 pm
Should have 70% winrate against orpheus (thanks serpex for addiing it into the game)
1 it has that weird quanta for luring eq
2 the primary goal is setup/save quanta for fractal and play shamans: be always ready with enough quanta, mill only if u have 6/7 :aether quanta
2a don't waste :aether on milling at the beggining, don't even play more than one dream catcher.
2b small fractal (3/4 copies) is better than get a stolen fractal with yoink or swapped by whim
2c don't play more than a copy of the same quanta source
3 u can play early shaman before drawing fractal, u have 5 of them because the first will probably get killed by double rock.
4 after u have 2/3 shamans or even better, used fractal on shaman start milling, he has a very small deck and relatively slow damage and not a lot of creatures, u have all the time for milling and draw all the quanta source so don't rush with early dc and mill.
Make practice, u will fail probably the first times but is solid, specially if u draw 2 shamans. U can even try to add another shaman for another copy of fractal, jade + a shaman is able to heal a lot of damages so u probably don't even really need fractal.
Geoversion is a lot slower and it will lack :life quanta. The only way this works is because apparently AI doesn't really want to use explosions on dream catcher. He is also so weak to old firestall :light :fire but stone skin makes it unkillable with farhe and adding reinforce + dragons makes it too big.
Post by: Manuel on September 10, 2021, 05:55:34 pm
Tried making something original for scorpio like a material ccyb and a spiritual semistall and i end up with this. Fire shield destroys scorpio, u can try to lower tess and drill copies to make it smaller and maybe consistent. I run fire mark for quick shield but u can change to light for quicker summoning
Post by: Manuel on September 11, 2021, 02:19:40 am
octane counter
Post by: Manuel on November 09, 2021, 08:22:17 pm
i think this is a lot more safe for swamp since u can mill his deck in no time and all u need to do is mulligan until u don't have a dc in your hand for a 99% winrate , free to change the ratio dims/regrade/pillars
Post by: timpa on January 09, 2022, 03:49:47 pm
Octane
Post by: Manuel on March 30, 2022, 04:32:59 pm
made this for cardinal, i think is a lot more solid than the other decks posted
dry spell is a quick kill for sofos or too much eggs, deployer is mostly for baiting tbolts, nymphs are for healing and slow him down
Post by: Manuel on March 30, 2022, 09:57:51 pm
fafnir decent counter, if he doesn't plays a very based denial hand (desert + lot of pests) or a rush one with early dragons u should make it
don't play rustlers that u don't need, the best set up in most games is to adrenaline a rol for having quanta and only after start healing
u can think to add one or two jade shields that cut a lot of damages, always notice when desert is in play and try to balance the quanta
https://streamable.com/y0eupe this is a video from my italian mansion demonstrating that u can lose even with a deck made by me if u don't play following my instructions
Post by: Manuel on May 13, 2022, 02:28:49 am
9-1 against thesis, just be sure to have a pillar and a diamond shield in initial hand, don play shriek if u don't have sopa and u should be able to kill before decking out
Post by: timpa on May 21, 2022, 06:28:57 pm
Maybe -shield +dragon is faster, but this only loses to insanely bad luck (which is also true of the current counter)
Post by: Manuel on June 08, 2022, 02:46:38 am
Loki's counter, i don't think is really possible losing without missplaying or against a very rush hand with first turn arsenic and not drawing wings.
This version can play wings quicker but is slower to deploy sharks, maybe is possible play another shank for a wings.
Post by: timpa on June 11, 2022, 01:11:40 am
Nosferatu
I started with the suggested counter, added deflags to deal with the clepsis and removed the regrades since you don't really need them if you can just stall with PA+wings. Quantum Towers instead of Aether Towers so that you can focus Metamorphosis on the Catchers (you'd think Material Towers would be better, but testiing showed you don't need that much material quanta and the extra aether quanta makes a difference), but keep the starting mark as air because you need wings up asap. 34 cards seems to be a sweet spot for not decking out when you have a below average draw.
Post by: kirbylover314 on November 17, 2022, 06:50:04 pm
Loki
Thoughts:
Pacify not as good as just killing Shtriga with Holy Light and also no more Hand Drill.
Maybe +1 Purify, -1 Holy Light or -1 BH if concerned about Arsenic.
Extra Rewind is often one more soft cc to remove a really big Shtriga too.
Remember to set lockets for enough :time to use Eternity.
Post by: kirbylover314 on December 05, 2022, 02:40:46 am
Scorpio
I don't think I've won with the Mill Aether listed in OP ever, this feels way better. Can win either by deckout or big Otys
Need to adjust number of copies of each card probably, haven't quite fine tuned it yet.
Post by: serprex on June 29, 2023, 04:33:48 am
Mirage
Suwako
Tried for a rareless Matrix counter, but unfortunately cg's idea of liquid antimatter is too slow, was hard enough getting pure entropy tears to stabilize, after that I needed a copy of sopa for wincon
1 rare Matrix
dejahope works vs fafnir & orpheus & cardinal
Meanwhile, created a nearly-rareless fantasia counter since 6 nymphs is pretty steep. Pulvy could be swapped out, bit weird trying to counter geodiss/sosespike. Fantasia potentially does whatever & gets away with it by having triple chroma mark. Like stealing diss is pretty common, but then sometimes it plays diss with PA & now you need to draw diss or yoink it
1 rare Fantasia
Continuing along with idea of mass steal being strong for rareless counters,
rareless Incubus
Rareless Rainbow took another day to map out. Initially tried dejahope+monk+holylight, but too much CC. So then had heatmirror/bonewall getting lock, but wasn't clean & seemed like fitting in a wincon would require some rares. Eventually fell upon good old geodiss+pa
rareless Rainbow
rareless Fantasia
& finally, after giving up on stealspam/purifyspam vs Scorpio, tidalshaman found a way
rareless Scorpio
Post by: timpa on August 20, 2023, 12:48:16 am
Mirage
this is still way too unstable tho
Post by: serprex on September 02, 2023, 01:57:37 pm
Mirage
this is still way too unstable tho
Maybe you'd prefer a more stable deck, like guilesingu
Mirage
Post by: Septima Rhay on November 09, 2023, 04:38:56 pm
Post by: timpa on November 10, 2023, 01:03:35 am
Maybe you'd prefer a more stable deck, like guilesingu
lol
Post by: Septima Rhay on April 17, 2024, 01:38:52 am
Halwyn counter
Post by: Septima Rhay on April 18, 2024, 12:02:44 am
Midas>Steal
Mirage counter
Post by: Septima Rhay on April 21, 2024, 04:36:09 pm
Could also go for an Earth forward build (see 2nd deck below) but I haven't tested this as much and it initially seems to miss Magma healing. Problem with this build is dealing with discord scramble. Metamorphosis to :earth after flood is on board.
Cardinal counter
