Messages

1306

Patch Notes & Development / Re: OpenEtG Patch Notes

« on: December 11, 2014, 08:45:10 pm »

Time Bomb does 18 damage on tickdeath
Shank of Void is no longer throttled

1307

Decks / Re: House of Mirrors[Demigods]

« on: December 11, 2014, 06:28:49 pm »

Sundials end up screwing up draw too much, instead abuse inno to pack too many shields

076qq036u3016ui0174g0477u017di017k6037n0017n9067qh017tb0180i018pj

1308

Decks / Re: Ready... Set... Dragons!

« on: December 11, 2014, 03:14:35 pm »

I was having trouble playing all the dragons. Found 4 dragons + 6 SoR to be the faster way

1309

League / Re: OL2: OpenEtG League

« on: December 11, 2014, 01:23:20 am »

serprex 2-0 timpa

1310

League / Re: OL2: OpenEtG League

« on: December 11, 2014, 01:13:42 am »

serprex 2-0 kirbylover314

1311

General Game Discussion / Re: The difference between broken/OP and just "Really good cards"

« on: December 10, 2014, 06:55:46 pm »

Just saying, his isn't a discussion as to whether or not dim shield is OP, it's a discussion on what counts as OP, so try not to get too focused on the topic of dim shield.

This is why I haven't replied. It's a deep topic that you've supported with examples. We can argue about all the examples, but the idea remains. League anecdotes are questionable; if you played a lot of games, people would've picked up that your set of decks feared dims, & so wouldn't run dim decks against you. You're also making the same fallacy that's repeated throughout the nerf dims thread in original; listing counters is the wrong route

CG talked me down from plenty off buffs/nerfs

Making bad cards counter strong cards moves towards rock paper scissors (anything beats purify, purify beats sosa, sosa beats anything. Yes, I'm exaggerating "anything")

Appreciate the feedback, the distinction you're describing is important to remember

1312

League / Re: OL2: OpenEtG League

« on: December 10, 2014, 04:34:03 am »

serprex 2-0 kirbylover314

1313

League / Re: OL2: OpenEtG League

« on: December 10, 2014, 03:51:15 am »

serprex 2-0 Lost in Nowhere

1314

Darkness / Re: 3|3 for 3, summon on discard

« on: December 09, 2014, 11:12:53 pm »

Fractal wouldn't work out well. Fractal wants efficient creatures, & discarding on fractal is only necessary if it's an aether creature. Compare to spidertal, the benefit of a 3|3 is quickly outpaced. Tho one can argue it's 3|3, not 4|2

[Spoiler]

1315

New Card Suggestions / Re: Strength Bolt | Strength Lance (posted in vanilla forum by eljoemo)

« on: December 09, 2014, 11:00:48 pm »

At what quanta should this equal blessing? I imagine the cap should be around 8|8 (?), considering bolt OTK with momentum + pu + skyblitz

Spoiler for Hidden:

draft

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256 at cap8, 208 at cap6, 136 at cap3. Matter seems to become "how many necessary for 100 OTK". At cap8, 2 (1 only gets 96 damage). Also 2 at cap6. 3 at cap3 gets exactly 100

1316

General Game Discussion / Re: Nymph rarity discussion

« on: December 09, 2014, 10:56:58 pm »

If you want to remove Nymph pack & have them be pack rarity bumps, then they should be able to drop from any pack. Not saying I lean towards that solution, only that that's the way to do it

1317

Events / Re: Tournament - WYSIWYP

« on: December 09, 2014, 10:51:19 pm »

serprex 2-1 Fippe94

We didn't ban vugon. I always had dragon on time. Could've won first game, but I played shifter & so couldn't afford dragon turn after (calculated & forgot)

1318

League / Re: OL2: OpenEtG League

« on: December 09, 2014, 09:42:39 pm »

serprex 2-0 timpa

[Spoiler]

1319

General Game Discussion / Re: Nymph rarity discussion

« on: December 09, 2014, 05:18:49 pm »

Since we discussed in chat, I'll record it here

Spoiler for long chat:

15:46:04 Shinki12345: I am open to suggestions, but if there is no powerful endgame content that motivates people to join tournaments, then there is a problem imo.
15:47:10 Guest_Fippe94: shiny cards
15:47:13 Guest_Fippe94: shiny nymphs
15:47:15 Guest_Fippe94: marks
15:47:22 Shinki12345: Key word "Powerful"
15:48:10 Shinki12345: Shiny's are an awesome idea, but end game content needs to have more substance to it or the motivation won't be consistent
15:48:23 Guest_Fippe94: if being succesful in tourneys means you get even stronger, then it gets harder for new players to even have a chance to win in tourneys
15:48:40 Shinki12345: Nymphs aren't so powerful that you can't beat people with them.
15:48:48 Guest_Fippe94: trust me, we have discuessed this a *lot* of times
15:48:56 Shinki12345: Besides, tournaments often don't even allow nymphs.
15:49:28 Shinki12345: Additionally, allowing them to be baught from packs on a rare occasion allows for people to get them outside of winning tourney's(albiet more difficultly)
15:49:46 Shinki12345: Hmm
15:50:00 Guest_Fippe94: ??
15:50:11 Guest_Fippe94: "often" means "only the last tournament"?
15:50:43 Shinki12345: If a nymph is OP, you can always ban it from tournaments.
15:50:46 Guest_Fippe94: and "banned" means "restricted"?
15:50:53 Guest_Fippe94: no
15:51:01 Guest_Fippe94: cards should not be op
15:51:13 Shinki12345: In the context of a tournament they can be.
15:51:20 Fippe94: well yeah
15:51:31 Shinki12345: In an all quantum pillar tournament, of course black hole will be banned. =P
15:51:34 Fippe94: but cards should be OP so that they are almost always banned from tournaments
15:51:43 Fippe94: should not be*
15:51:46 Shinki12345: Thats understandable.
15:52:39 Fippe94: cg already persuaded me of this, I'll just wait until he posts in topic
15:52:49 Shinki12345: There really does need to be a certain level of end game motivation like in the original game and its nymphs or else the game will get stale. You must at least agree with me on that?
15:52:53 Guest_serprex: Sadly cg is indefinitely afk
15:53:10 Guest_serprex: @Shinki I believe the only real end game is pvp
15:53:35 Guest_serprex: I originally made oetg as sandbox only
15:53:41 Guest_serprex: Was intending it to be like oetg-v
15:54:40 Shinki12345: Hmm, I guess maybe there is something here that I am missing.
15:55:29 Shinki12345: All good multiplayer games are meant to have rare endgame content. World of Warcraft, Diablo 2, the original Elements, AI;TG.
15:55:47 serprex: ARPGs are different
15:55:54 Shinki12345: Why not this one?
15:56:05 serprex: If elements was an ARPG then Photon wouldn't need to be balanced with every other card
15:56:23 serprex: It'd be ilvl 1, & other cards would be ilvl 10 etc
15:56:29 serprex: Power level can be different without being a problem
15:56:37 serprex: End game becomes optimization of high ilvl content
15:57:09 serprex: Other CCGs drive on having power cards
15:57:15 serprex: But our intent is that rarity != power
15:57:46 serprex: & having a pvp where one player has the option of playing blue nymphs while the other does not is inherently a power difference
15:57:56 Shinki12345: In WoW, the power level varied between max levels characters almost as much as it did between different leveled characters.
15:58:02 serprex: The goal is that player skill should be the determining factor
15:58:20 serprex: @Shinki I'm talking ilvl
15:58:28 Shinki12345: ilvl?
15:58:31 serprex: Haven't played WoW, but I'd assume they have something of that content
15:58:42 serprex: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Item_level
15:58:59 timpa: aka having epic gear
15:59:05 serprex: That page lists WoW as using ilvl stuff too, but it being hidden
15:59:19 Shinki12345: Ahh
15:59:28 serprex: Chess has no end game piece that you only unlock when you play tournaments
15:59:39 serprex: Seems pretty successful
15:59:51 Shinki12345: Thats an absurd comparison.
15:59:53 serprex: Star Craft doesn't have strong units that you only unlock when you win tournaments
16:00:26 serprex: MtG has power differences because p2w
16:00:45 Shinki12345: p2w? I play competitive MTG and I still don't know what that means.
16:00:51 serprex: pay to win
16:01:05 serprex: They get around it a bit by phasing stuff out etc
16:01:25 serprex: But MtG concept of card power is a bit divergent from ours
16:01:53 Shinki12345: I still don't understand how this game has motivation to pvp beyond just the hell of it.
16:02:04 Fippe94: that's the thing
16:02:06 serprex: That's the motivation behind living..
16:02:16 Fippe94: pvp is motivation itself
16:02:20 serprex: You play pvp events & stuff because you find pvp fun
16:02:33 serprex: If you don't find pvp fun in itself, then you should find out what you do find fun
16:03:24 serprex: Why did you join War?
16:03:43 Shinki12345: Many people play because they like to pvp, but won't be motivated unless they are rewarded for their efforts.
16:03:58 Fippe94: bu we have rewards
16:04:00 Fippe94: but*
16:04:29 Fippe94: note that lots of people choose "mostly useless" marks in vanilla as reward
16:04:48 Fippe94: and most pvp events have no rewards except reward icons
16:05:05 serprex: /me is someone who always chooses Mark over Nymph
16:05:25 Shinki12345: Truthfully, I choose marks over nymphs too.
16:05:29 Fippe94: see
16:05:48 Fippe94: you dont play tourneys because you want to get stronger cards
16:06:05 Shinki12345: You have me convinced on that point.
16:06:06 serprex: Except Odii
16:06:20 serprex: Blue Nymph OP
16:06:35 Shinki12345: However, you still don't have me convinced that its good to have nymphs be buyable from the shop for such a small price.
16:06:57 Fippe94: tell me how it is bad?
16:07:04 timpa: If you want to up them it's not such little amount
16:07:38 timpa: what is needed and we are still working on is balancing the meta over nymphs being common place
16:07:54 Fippe94: there are a total of 2 people that has a full set of nymphs I believe
16:08:14 Shinki12345: Because nymphs are VERY powerful cards, I don't feel rewarded for buying a nymph at all, I just feel like I ripped someone off.
16:08:15 timpa: unupped + upped? Or just unupped?
16:08:40 Fippe94: unupped+upped
16:08:42 Shinki12345: I feel rewarded for acquiring them randomly from packs, but buying them is meaningless to be.
16:08:53 Shinki12345: *to me.
16:09:21 serprex: @timpa ever library people at top of WT50?
16:09:31 serprex: 500k goes a long way
16:10:24 serprex: Shinki's ignoring that if you remove nymph pack, one has to grind tons of plat packs
16:10:26 timpa: I'm 80k away from getting a full set
16:10:34 serprex: Which means never buy non-plat
16:10:37 timpa: You can do it with 250k
16:10:44 Guest_Shinki12345: What do you mean serp?
16:10:49 serprex: & also means "Get a nymph while picking up tons of trash shards"
16:11:04 serprex: Thus making an incentive to sell tons of shards for other players' nymphs
16:11:13 Guest_Shinki12345: I would never buy non-platinum packs anyway, unless I wanted to get shinies of all the commons that is.
16:11:19 serprex: @Shinki I mean if you want to get TE with nymphs you only buy plat pack
16:11:26 Fippe94: also means "get full set of nymphs while getting like 4 full sets of everything else" or whatever cg calculated
16:11:45 Guest_Shinki12345: I don't see whats wrong with that.
16:11:49 serprex: Optimal TE route involves quite a bit of gold packs
16:12:11 Fippe94: same thing that is wrong with vanilla
16:12:26 Fippe94: extreme grinding to get collection turns a lot of players away
-snip-
16:27:39 Shinki12345: I guess my problem with the nymph thing is that when I think of the list of things that need to be fixed in elements, nymphs are not one of them. Why fix something that's not broken?
16:28:02 serprex: oetg isn't a pure fix-it project
16:28:14 serprex: It's also experimenting. Bazaar isn't broken in vanilla either
16:28:25 Shinki12345: I think it is.
16:28:58 Shinki12345: The bazaar is more less a bad idea in the original game, it worked, but it wasn't as fun as the pack system.
16:30:10 Fippe94: I see oetg more like a different game than "fix what's broken with vanilla"
16:30:26 serprex: Not being able to play Silence is Golden in vanilla felt wrong to me
16:31:38 serprex: Also tourneys like namegame
16:31:52 serprex: Where Calindu vs Antiaverage was in antiaverage's favor if you had red nymphs
16:38:11 serprex: Having to have 4+ blue nymphs to join Team Air successfully in war

tl;dr PvP

1320

General Game Discussion / Re: Nymph rarity discussion

« on: December 09, 2014, 03:29:10 pm »

Relevant past discussion

My own opinion: nymphs not being shard rarity is already a compromise. End game content shouldn't be cards, even Marks annoy me with their EQ resistance