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Demigod Prediction Decks

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polly

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I would greatly appreciate any help in tuning this proof of concept deck. Material Towers are overkill - I don't use :earth for anything at all - but I have no idea how to build good decks, and couldn't figure out a good quanta base for the trio.

Lycaon
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It would seem as though Sun Blade's passive ("When a mirage dies, their owner destroys top card of their deck") is applied per Sun Blade - e.g. if there are 4 Sun Blades on the field, when 1 mirage dies, their owner destroys the top 4 cards of their deck. If Flooding is on the field, 4 Sun Blades mill 16 cards per turn, so wait until the last few turns to play Flooding in order to Magma up to 500 HP.


Septima Rhay

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I would greatly appreciate any help in tuning this proof of concept deck. Material Towers are overkill - I don't use :earth for anything at all - but I have no idea how to build good decks, and couldn't figure out a good quanta base for the trio.

Lycaon
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It would seem as though Sun Blade's passive ("When a mirage dies, their owner destroys top card of their deck") is applied per Sun Blade - e.g. if there are 4 Sun Blades on the field, when 1 mirage dies, their owner destroys the top 4 cards of their deck. If Flooding is on the field, 4 Sun Blades mill 16 cards per turn, so wait until the last few turns to play Flooding in order to Magma up to 500 HP.

Regrade increases wings coverage
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polly

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I would greatly appreciate any help in tuning this proof of concept deck. Material Towers are overkill - I don't use :earth for anything at all - but I have no idea how to build good decks, and couldn't figure out a good quanta base for the trio.

Lycaon
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It would seem as though Sun Blade's passive ("When a mirage dies, their owner destroys top card of their deck") is applied per Sun Blade - e.g. if there are 4 Sun Blades on the field, when 1 mirage dies, their owner destroys the top 4 cards of their deck. If Flooding is on the field, 4 Sun Blades mill 16 cards per turn, so wait until the last few turns to play Flooding in order to Magma up to 500 HP.

Lycaon Revised
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Simpler solution using only  :air/ :earth. Unfortunately not the cheapest deck, but arguably the most reliable creatureless 500 HP EM deckout deck I've come up with thus far. It actually makes me think less of some of the prior decks I've submitted in this post, so I might go back and try to revise some of them. However, it requires attention to detail, because there's one critical combo that needs to be executed. The "why" is listed in the spoiler, and is why this post is so long :(

Key points:
  • The basic idea is to stall using Wings while accumulating :earth quanta for Stone Skin (SS). Win condition is the combo below in bold underline.
  • Try and hold one SS in your hand until right before you win, that way if Lycaon Nightmares you, you can still get 500 HP EM.
  • If possible, try to wait until Lycaon drops several Ricochet (Rico) before playing Scattering Wind (SW). Use them as needed in order to refresh hand (in case it's too filled with unplayable cards), but otherwise try to wait as long as possible before using SW. This is because SW increases the mark power of caster by 1 - with Rico, this effect can be amplified such that your mark power can potentially be increased by more than 1, making it suitable for charging :earth for SS.
  • Personally, when I use SW, I normally just use it on my entire hand rather than any individual card. IDK if that's the correct way to play that card though - I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone could give me pointers on the correct way to use SW!
  • Use Snowflake (SF) active on a card in your own hand in order to prevent deckout. Key targets are Nightmare'd Shadling or Werewolf, or in some circumstances your own Wings (see below bolded section in bullet point below regarding Imbue). Remember you cannot use SF active the turn you play it! Luckily you should be able to shuffle through your deck using SW, so you shouldn't have too much to fear from SF being the last card in your deck.
  • If you would deckout next turn (i.e. no cards currently in your own deck), use SF active prior to Imbue.
  • Use Imbue + Dull Khopesh (DK) + Scorpion Claws (SC) in order to speed up milling. In fact, I think if you don't pull the combo off correctly, you'll run out of Wings before you can mill Lycaon out. Assuming 1-3 power, DK + SC mills 4 cards from Lycaon's deck per turn, + 1 card minimum for turn draw, so plan accordingly for Waiter bonus.
  • Combo conditions: Imbue + DK + SC in hand, SF on board. NO WINGS IN HAND (no restriction on Wings on board). Lycaon must have at least 3 UNFROZEN Rico. With SF on the board, cast Imbue targetting DK to ensure SF active gets retained (to prevent self deckout). See spoiler after this list for reasoning/Imbue behaviour.
  • In order for SF (imb. DK) to mill, it needs to deal damage. On occasion, Lycaon will use Antimatter on SF, and then combine with Chaos Power, resulting in 0 Power SF (no damage = no mill). Use Protect Artifact on Snowflake to prevent this. This can be done prior to Imbue, and will not impact your ability to Imbue weapons! (Added tip: if you do this under high-Rico situations, there's a chance you'll PA Lycaon's Rico, meaning it can't be frozen by SF, so you may be able to cast Imbue sooner!)

Spoiler for Additional Section on Imbue + Weapons:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of Imbue is as such: When Imbue is cast involving 2 weapons/shields with active abilities, Imbue takes the active abilities and stats (numbers) of the weapon/shield currently on the board. If only one of the 2 has an active ability, then regardless of which one is on the board first, the resulting weapon/shield will always have the same active ability, and obviously if neither has an active ability, then the resulting weapon/shield will not have an active ability. Imbue always retains passive abilities of all merged weapons/shields.

If you cast Imbue targetting Scorpion Claws (SC), you run the risk of ending up with a Dull Khopesh (DK) with DK stats/active/passive + Snowflake (SF) passive rather than SF stats/active/passive + DK passive. There are 4 possible sequences that can occur based on the order/target Imbue is cast on.

Sequence 1:
  • 1st Imbue: SF (on board) + SC in hand => SF (imb. SC) in hand
  • 2nd Imbue: DK in hand => DK played onto board
  • 3rd Imbue: DK (on board) + SF (imb. SC) in hand => DK (imb. SF + SC) in hand
  • 4th Imbue: DK (imb.) in hand => DK played onto board
This sequence results in an imbued DK with DK numbers/active/passive + SC passive + SF passive.

Sequence 2:
  • 1st Imbue: SF (on board) + SC in hand => SF (imb. SC) in hand
  • 2nd Imbue: SF (imb. SC) in hand => SF (imb. SC) played onto board
  • 3rd Imbue: SF (imb. SC) (on board) + DK in hand => SF (imb. SC + DK) in hand
  • 4th Imbue: SF (imb. SC + DK) in hand => SF (imb. SC + DK) played onto board
This sequence results in an imbued SF with SF numbers/active/passive + SC passive + DK passive.

Sequence 3:
  • 1st Imbue: SF (on board) + DK in hand => SF (imb. DK) in hand
  • 2nd Imbue: SC in hand => SC played onto board
  • 3rd Imbue: SC (on board) + SF (imb. DK) in hand => SC (imb. SF + DK) in hand
  • 4th Imbue: SF (imb. DK + SC) in hand => SF (imb. DK + SC) played onto board
This sequence results in an imbued SC with SC numbers/passive + SF active/passive + DK passive.

Sequence 4:
  • 1st Imbue: SF (on board) + DK in hand => SF (imb. DK) in hand
  • 2nd Imbue: SF (imb. DK) in hand => SF (imb. DK) played onto board
  • 3rd Imbue: SF (imb. DK) (on board) + SC in hand => SF (imb. DK + SC) in hand
  • 4th Imbue: SF (imb. DK + SC) in hand => SF (imb. DK + SC) played onto board
This sequence results in an imbued SF with SF numbers/active/passive + SC passive + DK passive.

The critical parts to retain are: Scorpion Claws passive, Dull Khopesh passive, Snowflake active, and either Scorpion Claws or Snowflake power. Hence, Sequence 2, 3, and 4 will all suffice. If Imbue is cast targetting DK, then that can only result in Sequence 3 or 4. If Imbue is cast targetting SC, then that can result in Sequence 1 or 2, and since we want Sequence 2, that's only a 50% chance of executing properly. In conclusion, cast Imbue targetting DK.


Spoiler for Additional comment regarding Imbue + Wings:
If there is a Wings in your hand, either do NOT cast Imbue (wait until no more Wings in hand), or if there is only 1 Wings in hand, use Snowflake active on Wings prior to Imbue. In low-Rico scenarios, you may not have enough Rico get your fully imbued weapon on the board. If Imbue is used in a high-Rico scenario, it will fuse your board-Wings with hand-Wings.

The fused double-Wings will not last double the duration. More testing is needed to derive conclusive results, but it seems to add the two turn counts while decreasing turn count by 2 each turn. E.g. if you have a Wings on board with 0 turns remaining, if Imbued with a fresh Wings (5 turns), the resulting Wings will have 5 on the turn counter, but decrease by 2 each turn, so the Wings (imbued Wings) will only last 2 turns.


serprex

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Glad to see Imbue making an interesting addition to cardpool. Was worried it'd be too janky


polly

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Glad to see Imbue making an interesting addition to cardpool. Was worried it'd be too janky

I think there's several reasons why it feels "jank".

The first is that is because Imbue is a card that's just so "out there" in terms of what it does? For example, with Chaos Power, there's things like Blessing/Momentum that are somewhat similar. Even if you've never played with Chaos Power before, you may be able to have an idea of how to use it if you've played with Blessing before. But with Imbue, it's just...??? Closest thing I can think of would probably be Shard of Integrity, which isn't exactly a "cookie-cutter" card.

The second is that I think this is a higher skill floor card. I think there's that saying in MtG: "Reading the card explains the card", but in this case, if you're not mindful of the fact that there's (at least) 3 facets to a weapon {stats, active, and passive abilities}, then even if you read the card, you won't have a full understanding/appreciation of what Imbue does. (As an aside, is there any site/page that gives more detail/context on what each card does? This would be immensely helpful! For example, is there anyplace I can go to look up and see what shields in the game are "immaterial" or "reflective"?)

The third is that in order to use it for anything practical, you need at least 3 cards: Weapon/Shield A, Imbue, Weapon/Shield B. At least in my playtesting when developing FG Counters, it's frustrating when I die waiting for that 3rd combo piece.

I feel self-conscious because I feel like I'm just rambling/info-dumping to people who may not be interested in listening. But at the same time, I'd like to at least try and address some of these issues, because I think Imbue is a really interesting card that opens up tons of doors via composite shields/weapons, but I can understand if many people overlook it.

In particular, something I'm experimenting with is developing new FG counters based on Imbue or Dispersion. For example, I can't figure out how to play the posted Mirage counter, so I came up with my own. Admittedly it has reliability issues and needs tuning (LOTS of tuning, this is very much WIP), but at least for me, it's more intuitive to play:

Mirage - VERY WIP!!!
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Basically, you don't need to deal with all the "steal + CC" if opponent's Clepsydra are all frozen, and your permanents are immaterial. Known issue is that it sometimes eventually fails to keep up and Mirage Yoink's a Snowflake, or you lose due to damage (because you didn't draw a Druidic Staff). As long as your own Snowflake is PA'd, shouldn't be too big of an issue. If Mirage uses Snowflake to prevent self-deckout, you should win via damage eventually, or maybe it'd be a good idea to forget the DK and just go for damage?

Also while I'm at it, I'll drop this Hydrax deck here in an attempt to show I'm not an Imbue-One Trick Pony:

Hydrax 500 HP EM "Creatureless" Deckout
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Prioritise getting Gravity Shield (GS) and Great Maul (GM) combo active to block most damage from Hydrax, use SoB as needed to draw GS/GM. Play all non-weapon permanents when drawn (Hydrax has no PC). Use GS active on freshly Flying Weapon'd (FW) Prismatic Gladius (PG) or Crusader as needed to push health above 5 HP threshold (prioritise PG > Crusader, as Freeze + PG doesn't increase PG HP, only HP Power). Use Dream Catcher (DC) as necessary to speed up deckout and get Waiter bonus. Hand Drill Priority Ranking: Great Maul > Prismatic Gladius > Crusader. Play every Rico/tower/pendulum obtained via DC, as Rico will help for your final combo. Don't play PG, but keep 1 PG in hand for last turn in case.

Key Combo: On the last turn or second to last turn, cast (Dispersion -> Basilisk Blood (BB)) -> Cast Weapon/Frailty (as needed) -> Miracle -> GS (target self) -> DC (target Hydrax, only if at 500/500 HP, otherwise just pass turn). Depending on Rico count, everything will get Delayed for up to 300-ish turns, and Rico will generally also do Disp -> Frailty to increase your max HP to 500. If Frailty isn't DispRico-cast, manually cast it targetting any creature. Play PG/GM as needed to maintain Equipped/Weapon Master bonus. Cast Miracle, and use GS active on yourself to get to 500 HP, and use DC active on opponent to win midturn for bonus. If you're unable to use GS active on self for 500 HP (because Disp -> BB depleted all  :earth), then just pass turn and let SoG heal to 500: Full Health bonus (20%) > Midturn bonus (10%).



polly

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Perses
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Could use tuning, but as is, seems to work better than one of the two counters listed for Perses, and is roughly 1/4th the cost (specifically, the Gravity/Water one. Is that a typo, or am I just playing that counter wrong?).


serprex

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honestly vs Perses I've always used the first deck, which also works rareless/unupped

I'm thinking the 3rd post in his thread (currently reserved) can start collecting decks with high payout (ie 500HP deckout counters)


polly

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Lost a game due to deckout against Halwn using the 2nd counterdeck, so I decided to take advantage of the buffed Reinforce and came up with the following modification. Not sure if I was just playing the old deck wrong, or if AI changes made it obsolete?

Halwn
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Also came up with the following for Sesha. Notably very difficult to pilot, as it requires a working knowledge of Imbue and "composite shields" (see spoiler), but it gets the job done. Adding a Slime Shield or a Stonewall would make it significantly easier to play, but simply adding it in and making it a 32 card deck seems to impact consistency, and I'm not sure what would be best to swap out.

Sesha
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Spoiler for Comment on Composite Shields:
I think there's ambiguity in the wording of Shield damage mitigation, and that has a significant impact on Imbue and how the composite shields work - hence, the "working knowledge" part of composite shields.

Similarly to Imbued weapons (as mentioned in a prior post), there's the "base shield", and "imbued shields" that grant the base shield additional passive abilities or sometimes an additional active ability. The best way I can describe it is "think of your base shield as the icon in the game you see" - e.g. if you recognise the icon for the shield as "Solar Shield", then your base shield is Solar Shield. Every other shield is an "imbued shield", and the "composite shield" is what I refer to as the base shield + imbued shields (the unit as a whole). The "flat" damage reduction of your composite shield is derived from the base shield, much like the power of your imbued weapon. Note that this flat damage reduction can be increased via passive abilities that increase damage reduction, such as Slime Shield or Stonewall, but is NOT altered by the base damage reduction from imbued shields.

So for example, if I have 6 Diamond Shields, all imbued onto each other, the "flat" damage reduction of the composite shield will simply be 3, which is equal to the damage reduction of a single Diamond Shield, because the flat damage reduction on a composite shield does not get increased by the flat damage reduction of other shields imbued onto your base. However, if I have a Diamond Shield imbued with an upgraded Stonewall (with 99 :earth quanta, meaning the passive ability gives 11 extra damage reduction), my flat damage reduction will be equal to 14. Do note however, that it's not equal to 15, which is what you'd expect if it also merged the flat damage reduction from the Stonewall.

My understanding of it is that there is the general term "damage mitigation", which I use to mean "this reduces the damage you take via any specific mechanism." However, there's (at least) 4 subcategories of "damage mitigation" which mitigate damage through various mechanisms:

  • Damage evasion: The shield makes you "evade" the attack, resulting in no damage taken whatsoever. Examples of damage evasion are Gravity Shield and Chaos Mantle.
  • Damage reduction: The shield "reduces" the damage you take from an attack, resulting in less damage taken than the power of the attacker (or more damage in the specific case of Thermal Recoil). Most of the shields in this game fall under this category, examples are Diamond Shield and Tower Shield.
  • Damage blocking: The shield uses some mechanism to "block" the damage you'd take from an attack, resulting in no damage taken. This is separate from damage reduction - see cards like Dissipation Field or Shell of Void. (Note that in the case of the latter, the upgraded version of Shell of Void also has a damage reduction ability which reduces damage taken by 1, and then the rest is "blocked" by the separate ability that reduces your maxHP equal to the excess, unreduced damage, so upgraded Shell of Void technically has both Damage Reduction AND Damage Blocking.)
  • Damage reflection: The shield reflects the damage from spells - examples are Bubble Shield, Jade Shield.

Appreciation doesn't increase your maxHP based on how much damage is mitigated by your shield, nor does it increase maxHP by how much damage is blocked or evaded by your shield. If it did, what we should be able to do is we should be able to imbue any shield in the game with Appreciation, and however much damage it mitigates, you gain that much maxHP. If you playtest enough, you'll find that that's not what happens. Notable examples are Dissipation Field ("Block all damage...") imbued with Appreciation or Phase Shield ("Completely block enemy attacks...") imbued with Appreciation or Gravity Shield ("Evade all attackers...") imbued with Appreciation. Note that all of these shields formally have 0 damage reduction. For example, if you can bypass the evasion rule on an unaltered Gravity Shield, then you will deal full damage to your opponent. None of these composite shields will increase your maxHP.

In playtesting, I think the more accurate description based on gameplay is that Appreciation increases your maxHP based on how much damage is reduced by your shield. This damage reduction - in the case of a composite shield imbued with Appreciation - is taken from your base shield, and increased by passive abilities (but NOT base damage reduction) from other shields imbued onto your base. This is why this proposed deck is so difficult to pilot - in order for Appreciation to work, you need to ensure that your base shield is either Solar Shield or Appreciation, as Hush, Dissipation Field, and Gravity Shield all have 0 base damage reduction.

The way around this problem would be if you were to imbue an additional shield with a passive ability that increases your shield's damage reduction. The two shields that come to mind are Stonewall and Slime Shield. This would make it so that you don't need to think about "base changing", instead you just need to imbue everything into one composite shield, and it will increase your maxHP. But just adding in 1 copy of this card negatively impacts consistency in playtesting, so I just go without and instead "base change" (see spoiler for "How to 'Base Change'").

Spoiler for How To "Base Change":
Requirements: 2 Imbue in hand, 2 shields in hand, 1 shield in play.

Suppose I have shield C in play, and in my hand I have shield A, shield B, and 2 Imbue. I don't want shield C as my base for whatever reason (e.g. quanta cost, 0 flat damage reduction (for Appreciation/Solar Shield)). Shield A is my preferred base. What you do is:

  • Cast Imbue on Shield B. Shield C (base) imbued with Shield B is returned to hand.
  • Play Shield A.
  • Cast Imbue on Shield C imbued with shield B. Shield A (base) imbued with Shield C + B returned to hand.
  • Play Shield A imbued C + B.

But yes! To summarise because I've probably been yapping for too long - reading the card in the case of Appreciation doesn't explain the card, because Appreciation doesn't increase maxHP equal to the maxHP "blocked". If I may, I'd like to recommend changing the language on the card to make it more clear that it's based on "damage reduced" rather than "damage blocked", and while we're at it, clean up some of the terminology for a few other shields to make it consistent. Specifically: Golem Defender, Solar Shield, Shell of Void.

Also there seems to be a bug with Metamorphosis - when my mark power is 127 and I cast Metamorphosis, it only changes my mark, and does not seem to increase my mark power.